The Great Debate

The other day I recieved an email from The Elder, one of my best friends and an absolute wizard of instigating sports debates (no joke, if I ever get my own radio show I want him to co-host it. No one gets me focused on tangents better then him). The subject line was simply : "Let the debating Being..." naturally, I was intrigued. The Elders email read like this:

I have put some thought and study into this, and I have composed a list of the greatest sports teams of all time. This is my opinion, and i am curious as to what your thoughts are as well as what your lists would be.

Greatest Sports Teams of All Time:

• 1.)1980 Soviet Union Hockey Team*


• 2.) 1995 Nebraska Cornhuskers Football Team


• 3.) 1972-73 UCLA Mens Basketball Team


• 4.) 1995-96 Chicago Bulls


• 5.) 1992 USA Dream Team


• 6.) 1927 New York Yankees


• 7.) 1985 Chicago Bears


• 8.) 2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers


• 9.) 2002 Brazil Soccer Team


• 10.) 2001 Seattle Mariners*

HONORABLE MENTION:2005 USC Trojans Football Team* 1998 New York Yankees

* - asterix denotes that they did not win a championship that season

I had a number of issues with this email. 1, he put a Hockey team first. Not to mention the 1980 Soviet team was the team that lost to the US in the Lake Placid Miricle game. 2, He put the 01 Lakers on this list ( I don't want to step on the toes of my rebuttle, so just wait for my reasons why). 3, he put the 01 Mariners. The team that was famous for it's out of no where 116 wins, and infamous for choking like David Carradine (I'm sorry, thats not funny. Autoerotic asphyxiation is a serious matter and should be treated as such, haha)

What upset me the most about the 01 Mariners being on the list, was I felt like he was taking a personal dig at me. How could he possibly think this team was better then the 98 Yankees? They only won two less games then the 01 Mariners, but blew through the playoffs and won a World Series. It just did't add up.

Being a Dodgers fan, he wasn't left a bloody mess after the 2001 ALCS like I was. The idea that he deliberatly put the M's on there to piss me off put me in a bad place the rest of the day. Before I replied to this email, I had to have his reasons for including them.

After talking to him, I realized his reasons for putting the M's on there were justified. Wrong, but justified. Armed with the reassurance that this was legit, I fired back my response:

Can they really be "Greatest teams" If they didn't win a championship? I disagree with a few members on your list. Mainly the Soviets and the Mariners ( that was painful. Someone call my doctor, I'm going to have some issues to work through). They didn't win. If any team deserves to be on this list without a championship it's the 07 Pats. Thats it.

The Soviets lost to college kids and amatures. Is the 92 dream team losing to a team made up of college versions of Grant Hill and Chris Webber (actually legend has it is they did beat the 92 team in a scrimmage, but Allen Houston started talking shit, and Michael Jordan made sure Mr. Houston didn't touch the ball the whole next game they played.) Point is, Jordan is not losing to amatures with a medal in his grasp.

Two, my beloved 01' Mariners. They won a major league record 116 games. They were a fun team to watch, and an easy team to root for. But as they proved in October, they were not great. They lost to the Yankees in the ALCS. Here is where it's going to get painful. Those 98 Yankees were the best baseball team I've ever seen. They won their division by 22 games. They won the most games ever at that point with 114, and had a playoff record (including sweeps in the divisional round and the world series) of 11-2. They had young Derek Jeter, a entering his prime Bernie Williams and an All-Star year out of Tino Martinez. They had Pettite, Cone and a overly productive David Wells. The team had NO holes. It's shouldn't be close.

01 Lakers? Why? They won their division by 1 game over the Kings. They didn't win 60 games. They were completely average untill Shaq got his fat ass into gear, and happened to lay waste to the western conference playoffs. That aside, the 96-97 Bulls as well as the 85-86 Celtics both 69 wins and are largely debated as some of the greatest teams ever. Long story short, no team with Shaq's fat ass deserves to be in the top ten sports teams ever.

AND WHERE THE HELL IS THE 72 DOLPHINS! They went undefeated!

That was my response to everything. I obviously had some quams with The Elders list.

Real quick though, lets talk about the 72 Dolphins. True, they were in a less talented league then we currently have, which has been the common response from anyone reading that original email.

"The line men were smaller," "The players were slower," "They played less games," the ney sayers say. While all these are true, only the third I recognize as a valid complaint. The undefeated Dolphins of 1972 are the only undefeated team in any of the four main American Pro Sports history (Those four: Football, Basketball, Baseball and Hockey). They were 17-0 that year (to be perfect in the NFL now you would have to be 19-0). Two extra games means you have two extra chances to spoil perfection. I understand this, and it's a good point. However, there were also less teams meaning the talent wasn't as spread out. For the talent pool available was much more condensed then it would be now.

This brings us to the next two arguments, that there was a lack of athleticism then there is in today sports. There for we shouldn't recognize that team. That maybe so, but that could be said for all sports.

You can't tell me that there is a single team in the NBA right now that would lose to a team in the NBA 30 years ago. Could you imagine a former MVP Dave Cowens trying to guard a guy like Dwight Howard? Cowens was slow and 6'9", yet he was also a 2 time MVP. Dwight Howard can dunk on 12 foot rims. This would not be a game, it would be an execution.

The only sport that can translate is from 30 years ago to today is Baseball. But even then, the old team is battling up hill because of how physically perfect (granted, most artificially) the players are. In 1972, it's not inconcievable to see a player built like me (5'10" 175 lbs). Today, your average player is built like a Florida State line backer.

Example: Ozzie Smith, all star and hall of fame short stop. Played almost 20 years in the MLB. He was listed at 5'11" 150 lbs. Derek Jeter (a player who no one has EVER suggested to have done roids) is listed at 6'3" 195. Both All Stars. Ozzie is in the Hall, Derek is heading there. Here is the catch, Derek is considered to be not a very big dude. Back when Ozzie started out, Derek would be considered a power hitter. Now he is a line drive hitter.

All sports have evolved. Just because a team was perfect in 1972, and not 2010 doesn't mean they weren't perfect. They played the best in the world at that time, and they beat the best in the world at that time. They were great then and they are great now.

Done and done.

So here is my list of the Greatest Teams of All Time:

1. 95-96 Bulls: 72-10, 33 of which were road wins, which is an NBA record. They had the MVP, Michael Jordan, and three members on the leagues 1st team All Defense squad (Jordan, Pippen and Rodman). They also went 15-3 on the way to claiming their 4th ring in 6 seasons.
2. 95 Nebraska- Yeah I agree with The Elder on this one. The numbers are jaw dropping. They went un-defeated and slapped second ranked Florida 62-24 in the Championship game. Also, they beat four other top ten ranked teams by 23 that season.
3. 92 Dream Team: First year America sends the pro's to do business, and boy did they ever. 10 of the 12 were voted on the 50 Greats Players of All Time team. They set the bench mark for which all other Olympic basketball teams will be judged (especially the American teams. Just ask the "Redeem Team"). They took home the Gold Medal while sporting an 8-0 record with an average win of 43.75. Way to show up, rest of the world.
4. 72 Dolphins: Again, UNDEFEATED.
5. 85 Bears: 18-1 (15-1 in the regular season, 3-0 in the playoffs). A team that had Michael Singeltary AND Walter Payton ran through three playoff games outscoring teams 91-10 on their way to a Super Bowl. Yeah, thats great.
6. 98 Yankees- As stated, 114 wins, swept the World Series. Won their division by 22 games. 4 different guys with 20+ home runs. All 5 guys in their rotation won atleast 13 games.
7. 76-77 Montreal Canadians- NHL players weren't allowed to play in International Hockey tournaments until 1988, so to me that voids out Olympic Hockey teams. Looking at the NHL, the all time leader in Points is the 76-77 Montreal Canadians. They were 60-8 with a home grown squad ( 14 of their 24 players were originally drafted by them) and outscored opponents by 216 goals (also an NHL record). They outscored opponents by an average of 2.7 goals a game, and swept the Boston Bruins on the way to winning their 20th Stanley Cup.
8. 1973 UCLA Bruins- 30-0, destroyed Memphis State in the championship behind Bill Waltons 44 points (Which was just another day in the office, he hit 21 of 22 field goals)
9. 1985-1986 Boston Celtics- They went 40-1 at home and had 67 wins overall. They won their 16th championship over the previous 22 seasons that year and had the Leagues MVP (Bird, who won his third straight that year). Also they had 4 members of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players of All time Team.
10. 2002 Brazillian Soccer Team- Now I'm not the smartest Futbol fan in the world, so I decided to assume The Elders pick was the wise one. That being said I looked up what this team did, and oh buddy did they beat ass. They went undefeated in their Group, then as soon as the knock out trournament began ran amuck, only giving up 1 goal in 4 games (They won the Cup, and outscored their four opponents by 7-1)

HONORABLE MENTION

1. 1927 Yankees: Won their division by 19 games and swept the Series that year. They put up the 5th highest win total ever: 110 wins (in only 154 games). They also 107 home runs between their 3-4 hitters (Ruth 60, Gerhig 47). The knock against the, MLB was only white dudes at this time.
2. 07 Patriots: Only team to go un-defeated through the regular season in the NFL since they expanded to 16 games. Thats gotta be worth something. Tom Brady and Randy Moss set records for Touchdowns by their positions (Brady threw 50 Td Passes and Moss caught 22 of them). They didn't win the Superbowl, therefore do NOT belong on my Top-10.
3. O1 Lakers: Just because Shaq has a fat ass, and this team coasted through the regular season doesn't mean I'm not going to show their playoff dominance some love.